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Episode 10: Scott Forsgren

Breaking the mold

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Show Notes:

A path to recovery from chronic illness

Scott Forsgren is a health coach, blogger, podcaster, health writer, and advocate. As the editor and founder of BetterHealthGuy.com he shares his 24-year journey with Lyme disease and mold illness. Scott has lectured on his recovery from chronic illness at conferences and online summits. He is the co-founder of The Forum for Integrative Medicine and host of an annual conference bringing together top integrative practitioners to share modalities for treatment of complex chronic illness.

Scott joins Bioenergetics Beat host Heather Gray on a deep dive into the complexities and challenges of recovery from chronic disease, detailing the extensive learning gained through his own experience. In dealing with mold, he outlines a step-by-step approach that starts with ensuring a mold-free environment. Next, a stable and healthy platform for recovery has to be established. Finally, with the path cleared for a return to normal life, Scott offers an encyclopedic list of information and product resources including the NIKKI bioenergetic wearable.


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Scott Forsgren is a health coach, blogger, podcaster, health writer, and advocate. As the editor and founder of BetterHealthGuy.com he shares his 24-year journey with Lyme disease and mold illness. Scott has lectured on his recovery from chronic illness at conferences and online summits. He is the co-founder of The Forum for Integrative Medicine and host of an annual conference bringing together top integrative practitioners to share modalities for treatment of complex chronic illness.

Scott joins Bioenergetics Beat host Heather Gray on a deep dive into the complexities and challenges of recovery from chronic disease, detailing the extensive learning gained through his own experience. In dealing with mold, he outlines a step-by-step approach that starts with ensuring a mold-free environment. Next, a stable and healthy platform for recovery has to be established. Finally, with the path cleared for a return to normal life, Scott offers an encyclopedic list of information and product resources including the NIKKI bioenergetic wearable.

Heather Gray: Thank you so much for joining us on another episode of Bioenergetic Beats. I’m Heather Gray, a.k.a. The Lyme Boss. I’m a functional diagnostic nutrition practitioner and certified bioenergetic practitioner. And this episode today is brought to you by NIKKI. Unleash the wellness within. It’s a non-invasive, easily affordable and highly effective approach to optimize wellness. It’s a wearable device that puts frequency better based life in your hands and on your wrist. Make sure to stick around till the very end of the show because we’ve got a very special giveaway that you’re not going to want to miss out on, but you’re going to want to stick around anyway and hear all of wonderful Scott’s story and his knowledge and expertise as we dive deep into the world of mold and Lyme, mostly mold, but let’s welcome everyone. Scott Forsgren, he’s a fellow FDN like myself. So it’s going to be so much fun to have him on today. Thanks for joining us today, Scott.

Scott Forsgren: Thanks for the invitation. I’m excited to be here.

Heather Gray: yeah awesome so most of us usually have some sort of a backstory on why we’re talking about mold in line, because these things have a tendency to be so complex that nobody in their right mind gets into this world without a backstory so I would love to hear a little bit about your backstory and how you got in. yeah.

Scott Forsgren: Yeah, you bet. And that is so true. I mean, it is a long story at this point. So my story started with a tick bite in 1996 in Northern California. And I was actually fine for a few months afterwards. I didn’t know anything about Lyme disease at the time. But April 1997, over the course of a weekend, my health just really fell apart. It was like a flu times 100. The next several months, my symptoms were so bad that I wasn’t really sure if I would even survive it. And there were times when I had really come to the place that I would have been okay with that possibility. I had just never experienced anything like it before. Probably the worst symptom that I had was head to toe burning sensations that felt almost like you had been out at the beach for a full day with no sunscreen, felt like a sunburn, felt like a chemical burn. That lasted for a long time. Fortunately, today, that’s completely resolved. At the time, I couldn’t get up and walk across the room without feeling like that was my energy for the day. I had issues with my balance where sitting up in a chair was challenging, I would prop myself up with pillows in my bed at night, because I always felt like I was going to roll off to the floor. And now that I understand more about Lyme and mold and look at the symptoms, and unfortunately, they overlap a lot. So it’s really difficult, as you know, to distinguish the two. But if you look at the symptoms of what then I was starting to look at, which was Lyme, the mold piece came into the conversation later.

Scott Forsgren: I had been to 45 different doctors over a course of eight years. And then finally, in 2005, got to someone that really was able to help point me in the right direction. So at that point, several years was dealing with the difficulty walking, balance issues, vision issues, joint pain, muscle pain, lots of GI issues, cognitive issues. I mean, not remembering your phone number, not remembering where you parked your car, finding yourself in the backseat of the car, wondering how you’re gonna get the car to go where you need it to go. I mean, just things that are kind of concerning, but fortunately, all of those have improved. Muscle twitching or fasciculations, muscle spasms, this weird motor-like tapping sensation in my left foot that just felt like your foot was on the hood of a car and it was just nonstop kind of this tapping or twitching sensation. And then a lot of other sensitivities, light sensitivity, sound sensitivity.

Scott Forsgren: crawling sensations that felt like bugs or something were crawling on your skin. I understand now that’s probably more of a neurological presentation. And then whether or not it was from infections, exposures to mold, inflammation, or just the experience of going through something so significant, anxiety, depression, OCD, all of those kinds of things come into play as well. So finally, in 2005, after doctor number 45, I started with a new medical doctor. I had already at that point received a diagnosis of chronic fatigue syndrome, fibromyalgia. Back then, the only thing that you could find about chronic fatigue syndrome was that it generally resolves in a decade. That’s what I was finding on the internet. And that was not reasonable. I certainly wasn’t gonna wait for a decade to see if what they were saying was true.

Scott Forsgren: I didn’t know at that time that mold contributes to chronic fatigue syndrome, that Lyme contributes, that viruses contribute, that mitochondrial toxins contribute. I mean, there’s so many things that now we understand can be contributors to even those diagnoses, chronic fatigue, fibromyalgia, and so on. And really at that point, those were kind of more, I think, labels for the symptoms that I was dealing with and not so much root cause-related diagnoses. So in 2005, I had a doctor that sent me to an acupuncturist. She worked at an outlet mall. I thought, this is not where I’m gonna find answers when I’ve been to all of the best of the best. She was doing electrodermal screening or electroacupuncture, according to Vole. And she, after a couple of hours, said, I think you need to go back and have your doctor test you for Borrelia, Bartonella, Babesia, and Ehrlichia, all Lyme and co-infection related.

Scott Forsgren: It took us a couple of times to run some of the tests to get confirmation, but ultimately she was right. And so that really shifted my whole life. I mean, that was really a kind of inflection point. And that also piqued my interest in energetic testing. I was then a few months later sitting in the front row pestering Dr. Dietrich Klinghardt about his work and his system of energetic testing. And that really has become such a big part of what’s guided me now over many years is kind of work in that energetic realm, his autonomic response testing and other tools that are working on more of an energetic level. Also why I’m interested in tools like the Wave 1, like the NIKKI, those types of things as well, because I think they have a lot of therapeutic potential also. So it’s been 17 years now, 18 years, since my diagnosis of Lyme.

Scott Forsgren: Shortly after that, I started then reading Richie Shoemaker’s book, Mold Warriors. That was 2005-06. Figured out that I was living in an apartment that had visible mold. I didn’t know at the time that that could create health problems. I don’t think anyone was talking about it. We did confirm that there were issues in that environment. I very quickly moved out. And I think now that the mold exposure was probably as significant, maybe even more significant than the Lyme and co-infections. The combination of the two, certainly not a good combination for supporting health. And fortunately today, I’m doing really well. I still take good care of myself. I still use physics-based tools, frequency-based tools. I still take supplements. I still work on myself, nutritional support, all of those kinds of things. But I think that for me, the takeaway was really the message in the illness was to prioritize myself. And I’m super blessed now that I’m doing really well. I have an active life. I work far too much and probably should slow things down a little bit. But it’s been a journey. And as challenging as that journey has been, it’s also come with so many gifts along the way.

Heather Gray: Oh, absolutely. How funny the places that we actually get help from that seems so different than where we, you know, counterproductive than where we think you from an acupuncturist in a strip mall, me from a podcast, listening to Reed Davis, the founder of FDN speak right to this hairstylist at the time, you know, and I, what he was saying just intuitively made sense. And that’s when I jumped into to be in an FDN and it was actually Reed who helped me unravel my mold mystery because after a few months of, and this was back in 2013, I’m kind of an OG as far as only like two other graduating classes before me, but I had gotten so much better after doing the FDN way, except like this last little piece that I could not dial in. And he was like, you know, Heather, I think we need to test you for Marcon’s. And I think, I think you might be living in mold.

Heather Gray: The people who lived in that house before us, drywalled a hot tub inside the home with carpet. We demoed, we demoed that mold ourselves, not knowing any better. And so between the suicide attempts of my kid and myself, the time that I lived there, it was legit insane. And so, I mean, it’s crazy, these places that we get these messages from that are just so, like I said, not where we would think that we would, especially with you seeing all the doctors. So thank you for bringing that piece in. So not, you know, people don’t minimize or dismiss where you might be getting help from. Like, you know what I mean? Like if you get that intuitive hit, follow that, follow that, follow that. So that’s beautiful. So let’s actually, this is a great spot. We’re gonna take a little quick break. Don’t leave, come back, because again, you’re gonna wanna wait till the very end to first off hear how well Scott has been doing and what he does for help with people with mold, but also to partake in that wonderful giveaway as we, yep, are always giving something away on these amazing episodes. You’re not gonna wanna miss out. Stay tuned.

Heather Gray: Awesome, welcome back. If you missed the first part, you missed a lot. Most of you, Lyme Mold World understands what a complex, long journey. You know, I think he said his was 26 years, 27 years. Mine was 28, 29 years. It’s nuts. But both of us are shining examples of what you can overcome. Like it’s possible. And that’s why I love doing this type of work is to give inspiration, to give hope, right? To those people who are newer in this journey or frustrated or have seen 20, 30, 40, 50 different practitioners to not give up. So on that thread, Scott, tell us a little bit of how do you work with folks?

Heather Gray: What’s some of the, cause you brought up some bioenergetic stuff, some physics type stuff. So talk to us, walk us through your process.

Scott Forsgren: So my main focus really is on educating people. And a lot of that is through my podcast, through my website. I do some coaching as well as my schedule and bandwidth permit. But my real focus is educating people on kind of this 11 step model that has come together over many years. And this is not my original thought. This is thank you to the universe for connecting me with the Dr. Dietrich Klinghardts and the Neil Nathans and the Raj Patels and so many amazing people that have really kind of helped me to shape the way I think of these things. And so if we kind of just look a little bit at the 11 steps and how that’s kind of come together in my mind, and as you well know, it’s gonna change over time. We’re learning new things. Some of these steps we didn’t know about five years ago, eight years ago. I’m sure there’s still pieces of the puzzle that we’re missing. But the first step for me really is always supporting detoxification and drainage. And it’s surprising how many people don’t really even know what drainage is. And that’s so critical for improving the terrain and improving ultimately our health. And so step one, that’s where I think of starting always. I think there’s, you know, some of these things, the order may change a little bit, but for the most part, detox and drainage to me is so foundational. Step two then is looking at the external.

Heather Gray: Oh, actually, hold on, hold on. Sorry. One, one, let me interrupt real quick. Cause that was just a beautiful spot to where, so you had used the Lyme and mold frequencies on the wave one. And then now we’re kind of moving into a NIKKI plus Lyme, which is going to have the frequencies, the Lyme and mold. And that’s part of what that does so beautifully is it actually puts in the detox as well. And so it’s what I, why I love this work compared to like saying like number one, you need to be focusing on detox. I think that’s why I felt like the Western med model was going to kill me because they were throwing napalm at a person who had been sick for decades and not asking if I was pooping daily or peeing or sweating, which I wasn’t. Any of the, so it is so important to have that detox in. And that’s part of the reason I love some of these more gentle tools for that as well. Yeah.

Scott Forsgren: Yeah, and that’s really evolved as well. When I started working with what was the Wave Force, which was before the Wave 1, that was around 2017, 18, I think, five, six years ago. It actually used to come with a bottle of drainage drops that you used along with the device. And so at that time, detox and drainage support was not built in from a frequency perspective. Over time with the Wave 1, that was something that was added, which is just fantastic. And as you alluded to, the NIKKI is continuing to evolve in that realm and supporting people as well. So absolutely detox and drainage. I still, to this day, still use my Wave 1 for health maintenance, for detox, drainage, Lyme support, all of that as well. And like many, incorporating the NIKKI now as well. So step two for me.

Scott Forsgren: is looking at the external environment. And I think it’s so, so critical. Are we getting exposed to mold, to a toxic soup of mold, bacteria, many things. It’s not just mold, we kind of erroneously call it mold illness, but it’s much broader than that. And we’ll talk more about that in a few minutes. EMFs as well. If you have high levels of EMFs in your environment, that certainly can also be an issue from a health perspective. So step two is dialing in that external environment to support our internal environment. Step three is optimizing our sleep, very critical. Step four, looking at mental emotional contributors. Did we have some traumas and conflicts that set the stage for illness, which is very common, or did the illness itself ultimately end up becoming a trauma that we then still need to work through because we were so invalidated. There was a lot of fear. Our medical providers didn’t hear us, didn’t have solutions. So really working on that mental emotional health level is so critical. Step five is retraining the limbic system. And we’re gonna talk a little bit more about that. The limbic system, the vagus nerve, the autonomic nervous system, the parasympathetic tone, very important. We need to be in a place of being able to calm the system down in order to support our healing.

Scott Forsgren: Step six is looking at mast cells, reducing inflammation, modulating the immune system. So, you know, what is it, why are we having such a hypervigilant immune response, a hypervigilant inflammatory response, and mold is a primary driver of mast cell activation syndrome, as are many other things. But we’re talking today a lot about mold, so we need to keep that in mind when we’re thinking about mast cells, inflammation, immune dysregulation. Step seven is kind of back to basics. How do we optimize hydration, nutrition, the microbiome, gut health? Step eight is bringing in some of the pieces that maybe aren’t looked at as much, also some foundational pieces like supporting the adrenals, looking at the mitochondria. I feel like the mitochondria is another area that in the last maybe five years, we have a lot more understanding around and focus on. I don’t think we were talking about it quite as much prior to about five years or so ago. Cryptopyraluria, another piece, Dr. Klinghart and I have written a couple articles on that. KPU, important to think about, do we have enough zinc and B vitamins to support our immune system? And then also in step eight, which is probably one of the, if not the most overlooked factor in this whole conversation, which is hypercoagulation. So are the toxicants, the heavy metals, the mold exposure, the infections, the Babesia, the Bartonella, are these things triggering hyperviscous or hypercoagulated blood? That’s a huge issue and many people haven’t looked there. I think it’s even a bigger issue now in the pandemic era. If we really look at hypercoagulation, it’s become such a big issue for many people.

Scott Forsgren: Step nine then is what people think should be step one commonly, which is addressing microbial overgrowths. And I think many people, myself included early on, were like, if we can just kill something, we’re gonna be healthy, we’re gonna be better. At the end of the day, it’s now very late in my process. I think if you can set the foundation first, we don’t need to be quite as aggressive. And sometimes we don’t then, by the time we get here, we don’t need the sledgehammer. Sometimes the feather is the better solution. So looking at viruses, looking at retroviral activation, looking at parasites, SIBO, gut issues, the potential for fungal colonization from water damage building exposure, looking at other fungus and yeast, then getting into Lyme, co-infections, Bartonella, Babesia, those types of things. And potentially then some people may also need to do some biofilm support also. Step 10 is looking at-

Heather Gray: Say it isn’t so, Scott. You’re not focusing on treatment?

Scott Forsgren: I’m not focusing on the microbes because I think our microbiome is so incredibly complex that we’re not ever going to eradicate these things. So I don’t think the bugs are necessarily why we’re ill. It’s our host response to them that really is what’s driving a lot of our sickness or disease.

Heather Gray: Absolutely. Amen. Thank you for that.

Scott Forsgren: Step 10 is looking at the dental contributors, you know, are we dealing with cavitations that we need to go in and kind of clean out in order to also address some of the infections? Do we have root canals? Do we have amalgams? All of that’s important. I generally think of this later because there’s so many other things we want to do to stabilize the system. If you want to do something that requires a surgical intervention, you want to make sure you’ve optimized things so the body can really heal, that you’re going to have long term success. That may come earlier for some people, that maybe that is more of their dominant focus. But for the most part, I think we want to address a lot of these foundational pieces first. And then step 11, the last step is

Scott Forsgren: if we’ve had these termites in our system for many years, and I take this analogy from Dr. David Jernigan, there is gonna be some damage that’s occurred to our structure, to our tissues. And so what can we do to regenerate, to restore, to repair after we’ve addressed a lot of these other termites, so to speak? So that’s kind of the 11 steps, if we’re thinking really about mold in this conversation, which is our focus. You know, step two, very early in the process, and the reality is the detox and drainage piece is also starting to help in that realm. So when we think about mold and mycotoxin exposure, very critical at the very beginning of this process that we’re really focused on that. And then a lot of the Lyme and co-infection piece really comes later. And I think a lot of times people kind of wanna jump into treating Lyme and co-infections, but if you are dealing with mold and mycotoxin issues, at least in my experience and that of my amazing mentors, usually we wanna address the environment, address the mold, the mycotoxins, potentially the colonization piece way before we get into a lot of the Lyme and co-infection pieces.

Heather Gray: Absolutely. Absolutely. And I love how you brought in the limbic retraining part to that too, because mold is notorious for turning on the alarm bells, fire, fire, fire, fire. But even if you’re out of the system, out of the moldy environment, the alarm bells, no one’s turned them off. So they’re still going off and people don’t realize what a impedance that can be to completely, you know, healing and overcoming a lot of these diseases if we’re stuck in fight or flight. So I love how the NIKKI has a stress and anxiety, you know, unit to help with that. So what are some of the ways you help retrain the limbic system?

Scott Forsgren: Yeah, so, I mean, when we talk about the limbic system, I think you’re right. I think it is absolutely critical that we’re thinking about this. Unfortunately, I think that some people interpret the limbic system conversation to mean that their illness is psychosomatic. I don’t think that’s what it means at all. As you alluded to, the limbic system, while it can be impaired by emotional trauma, it can also be impaired by inflammation, by mold exposure, by infections, by so many factors. And so, it doesn’t mean that just because we conclude we need to do some work with the limbic system, it doesn’t mean that our illness is in our mind. It may mean that it is in part in our brain. And so, there’s lots of illnesses that have a brain component that we don’t just assume are mental emotional. But unfortunately, I think there is some resistance to limbic system work because it kind of comes back to that invalidation, it’s all in your head kind of conversation that many of us had. I had a stack of referrals to psychiatrists, I could have started a referral service if I wanted to, it was so ridiculous. And so, doing limbic system work doesn’t mean that you don’t also fix the external environment. It’s not a get out of jail free card to continue living in mold, we still need to address the tiger. But once the tiger, you’ve remediated, you’ve moved, once the tiger is now the kitten walking outside the window, you don’t want to still interpret that kitten as a tiger. So, we’re using the limbic system work to reboot as Dr. Nathan terms it, or recalibrate our perception of threat so that it matches the actual threat level that we’re not over perceiving something that’s a small threat and reacting as though it’s a big threat. So, I think it’s critical to do work in this realm. I just actually had a client recently,

Scott Forsgren: that had been dealing with pretty significant chronic fatigue syndrome, CFS-ME for many years, had done a lot of the mold work, the Lyme work, the EMF work, and incorporated limbic system retraining and another vibrational device called the Apollo Neuro, also kind of supporting, calming the nervous system, and really has had some very significant progress. So tools in this realm, the one that I’m the most familiar with because I’ve done it myself is DNRS, Annie Hopper’s work, fantastic. The Gupta program with Ashok Gupta, excellent as well. There’s a newer one called Primal Trust that I’m hearing a lot of good things about. And then I think also using some of these devices, so whether it’s frequency-specific microcurrent, which can help with the limbic system and the vagus nerve, whether it’s BrainTap, which can also really help kind of calm the nervous system. Other tools as well, like, as you mentioned, the Stress and Anxiety Program and the NICI potentially could be helpful also. So there’s just a lot of things we can do in the limbic system realm. Some of them are more active, what we maybe call driver’s seat, where you’re actively doing a program like DNRS, Gupta, Primal Trust, and a few others that are out there. And then others that are maybe more passenger seat where you’re using a device. I think there’s a place for both of them, but calming the system is so critical to set the stage for healing.

Heather Gray: Absolutely. I really love breath work, somatic experiencing work. Like there’s so many, I just love how much this is coming to the forefront these days in healing. Cause even just, even just five, six years ago, most people weren’t talking about trauma in the nervous system. And, and that was a huge piece to getting me to stop relapsing, right? Like I kept focusing on the physical, kept focusing on the physical, I’d get better. And then six months later, a year later, I’d relapse and then I’d relapse. And I, after doing that about three different times, I finally figured out it was the nervous system stuff. And I haven’t had a relapse in three years now.

Scott Forsgren: Awesome. Yeah, when I get

Heather Gray: When I get COVID, I get COVID. When I get the flu, I just get the flu. I don’t actually reactivate or reflare anything else. It’s such a blessing. So this work, even though it may seem simple, right, don’t discount how powerful it can be. Absolutely. So if mold and mycotoxins are issues, how do you support the body in dealing with these?

Scott Forsgren: Yeah, I mean, I think there’s a lot of things here that we can talk about in terms of, you know, how do we explore this? How do we potentially approach it? I think some of the tools that we can use is, I mean, first, we really want to start by looking at the external environment before we kind of turn more to how we’re supporting the internal environment. So I think there are tools out there for self-testing that can be helpful, but they’re not perfect. So we shouldn’t put all our eggs in the ERMI basket or the HertzMe2 basket. A lot of times we do need to get an indoor environmental professional to come in and really do some deeper exploration. But I think the ERMI from Micrometrics or Envirobiomics is a good place to start. You can then calculate the HertzMe2 score, which is a pretty good algorithm for getting some insight as to whether or not an environment is potentially going to be a concern or health supporting. I think the gravity plates can be a nice adjunct to that. So immunolytics, for example, I wouldn’t use gravity plates as the only tool because there are some SIRS or biotoxin associated molds like Stachybotrys, like Ketomium that you’re generally not going to find there. But it does give you another picture. It gives you something to visualize as well. There are also mycotoxin tests from the environment that can be done, like the Real-Time Labs EMA test that looks at some molds and mycotoxins. And then we’re also now able to do some testing in the bacterial realm, looking at actinos, looking at endotoxins. So that’s also from Envirobiomics. I think the challenge is it’s still not completely clear what you then do in those scenarios. You certainly do some other things like drain maintenance protocols and things like that. You can actually have actinos from the environment that are not related to water intrusion. So just the fact that we have plumbing in our homes, bathroom showers, baths, those types of things, that can be a source for some of this actino-endotoxin conversation, which now, at least Dr. Shoemaker, his thought is that that’s even more significant in terms of its contribution than mold or mycotoxin. So I think we just have to think broadly or holistically about our environment as well. And then if people are looking for an indoor environmental professional, I think a good place to start is ICI, the International Society for Environmentally Acquired Illness. So that’s ISEAI.org. They have a list there by geography where you can go in and find indoor environmental professionals in your area. They don’t yet have one for remediators. But my understanding is that’s something that hopefully is going to happen because finding good people in this realm is difficult. I can’t count the number of people that I’ve talked to that have had people come in and do air sample testing and say, hey, this environment looks great, only to find out that the reality is that isn’t the case. So what do you do once you find out that you have an issue?

Scott Forsgren: You have a few options. One would be to remediate. I’ve been through that process. In fact, have recently been through that process.

Heather Gray: I was just going to ask you because Colorado, we actually set a record like actually having more rain waterfall than Seattle did last year, and Colorado is not equipped for that kind of rainfall. And I heard that you had a little bit of issue in your own home this year. So what was the problem with that?

Scott Forsgren: Yeah, so I’ll probably save the whole long details, but I did have multiple water intrusions in the environment that I’m living in. Fortunately, I was able to find good inspectors, find good remediators, and I’m still kind of at the end of that process. My health has not been affected. I think we got on top of it before there was any significant mold issues or anything to be concerned about. But had I not known how significant it can be and my health history with mold and mycotoxin-related issues and let it kind of go on for a while, like some people do, like, oh, there’s a stain on my ceiling or there’s water dripping from the ceiling or whatever, it very likely could have become a more significant issue. So once we’ve identified that there’s an issue, then remediation certainly is an option. I think you need to find someone who is a SERS literate remediator. They are not easy to find. Source removal is so critical. So while things like fogging and misting and whatnot have a place, in my mind, it’s only after source removal. It’s not as a way to bypass finding and removing the actual problem. So maybe a place for them, but it’s not the solution entirely. If you’re not wanting to remediate or you’re not in a position where you can remediate, maybe you’re in an apartment, something that you rent or lease, moving obviously is another option. I would suggest then that people are testing the environment they’re moving to, because it’s not uncommon for those of us that have dealt with mold and mycotoxins to kind of move from the frying pan into the fire. I’ve just seen it so many times where people find a new environment and it’s worse than the one they were in. So definitely want to do some testing there.

Scott Forsgren: Another option would be avoidance. So, you know, living more in a tent, a trailer, an RV, kind of out in the desert or away from buildings that are more likely to be water intruded. I think that as a strategy can definitely move the needle, but it’s not practical for everyone. People have jobs, families, they’re not always able to do that. Looking at things like air filtration as well. Yes, we wanna optimize our internal environment. Yes, I have many air filters in my home, but it’s not the complete solution. You still have to address the source of the problem. You have to do the source removal piece. So, you know, air filters are great, but I tend to think of them more as, you know, still trying to towel dry in the shower, but you haven’t turned off the water or the hole in the bottom of the boat. And we’re essentially then kind of bailing the water out with paper towels, but the boat is still sinking. So, you know, there’s lots of things that we can do to work on our external environment. And it is unfortunately not always the easiest. Fortunately, those of us that are, you know, more connected to groups like ICI and so on can find resources that are going to be able to help people generally. If we’re looking at how to explore the potential for mold and mycotoxins in the body, so we talked about outside the body, what about in the body? This is an area that is debated and that, you know, nothing is black and white. Unfortunately, when it comes to mold or Lyme, there is no perfect testing. I have found the urine mycotoxin testing to be quite helpful and insightful. And Real-Time Labs is my tool of choice in that realm. Found it very personally helpful. It’s also one that my mentor, Dr. Neil Nathan, really puts at the top of the list. Mosaic Diagnostics, which used to be Great Plains, has one, Vibrant has one as well. So that’s kind of looking for mycotoxins coming out in the urine.

Scott Forsgren: There is some debate, you know, is that a natural normal process? Does it necessarily mean that just because you have mycotoxins coming out in the urine that that’s a contributor to your condition? We can also then look at more indirect ways of exploring this. So my mycolab, for example, they have antibody testing to mycotoxins. Cyrex has a pathogen associated immune reactivity screen that also looks at some molds to see if that’s potentially an issue. We can do more allergy type testing as well, like IgE mold allergy testing, or Allitest has their mold immunoreactivity panel. So those are not necessarily indications of biotoxin illness or SIRS. Mold allergy is a different process, but often it overlaps and people can be both mold allergic and biotoxin affected. We can look at things like the organic acids testing from Mosaic Diagnostics as well, has some indications for the potential of fungal colonization. And then the biotoxin markers that Dr. Shoemaker has made popular over the years still have a place, C4A, TGF-beta-1, MMP-9, MSH, those types of things, but they’re not specific for mold. They’re good indications of inflammation, essentially. And then we have the VCS test or the visual contrast sensitivity test as well. So how do we support

Scott Forsgren: the body once we’ve identified that there is an issue? Ideally, first we’re fixing or improving the external environment, and then coming back to the detox piece that we talked about.

Scott Forsgren: A lot of times, I think some people will do better by starting with single ingredient binding products, especially if they’re dealing with mast cell activation syndrome. So things like activated charcoal, things like zeolite or bentonite clay or chlorella, even cholestyramine or Wellcol, which are pharmaceuticals can be helpful for people and are worth exploring in some cases. And then we now have a number of good

Scott Forsgren: combination binder products. So things like Biotoxin Binder from Cellcor, I really like a lot. GI Detox Plus, Ultra Binder from Quicksilver, Binder Plus from Nutramedics. I mean, there’s just there’s so many of these. Toxies Bind from Beyond Balance. One of my new favorites is Charcoal Plus Binder from Designs for Health. It’s a combination of charcoal, chlorella, and G Pure zeolite. So we fortunately have a lot of tools in this realm, but we want to start supporting detoxification, binding these mycotoxins in the gut, minimizing enterohepatic recirculation so that the mycotoxin burden is reduced. Drainage support also important here.

Scott Forsgren: I tend to really like to kind of lead in this realm with homeopathic tools, so that could be the Pecana line with Mundipur, Iteris, that could be Energetics with drainage tone, hepatic tone, lymph tone 2, DesBio has a nice systemic drainage product as well. And then we can also, besides the homeopathics, we can certainly use herbs in this realm. So DesBio has one called Dandy Complex that I like, Nutramedic’s Berber or Berber Pinela their DandeLyme product also are all superb options. Beyond Balance has one called Pro Myco for helping to support mycotoxin elimination. And then if people tolerate it, incorporating things like glutathione in some cases, incorporating glucuronidation support. So a lot of these mycotoxins are processed and excreted through phase 2 glucuronidation. So whether that’s calcium deglucurate or a product called glucuronidation assist that was formulated by Beth O’Hara and Bob Miller, that’s a product that I still take from time to time to really kind of support optimization of that pathway. And then there are going to be some people where we have to think about the potential for fungal colonization as well. So do we need to incorporate anti-fungal interventions, whether that’s natural, whether that’s herbal or pharmaceutical in some cases, there are people that maybe will benefit from Itraconazole or Amphotericin B. Usually we’re thinking about both the sinuses and the gut when we’re doing these kind of fungal colonization pieces as well. But if someone.

Scott Forsgren: has moved out of or improved their environment and they’re still constantly seeing mycotoxins coming out in a urine mycotoxin test, well then the question is where is it coming from? If it’s not coming from external, it’s possible then that you have a mycotoxin production factory inside the body and that then needs to be addressed not only by the detox and drainage piece, but also by dealing with the fungal colonization or the organisms that are creating the mycotoxins inside the person.

Heather Gray: Absolutely. I love, um, Cellcor has the carboxy and they’ve actually suggested folks putting that in like the navage system, which really gets a heck of a lot deeper into the sinuses than just a typical, like neti pot, uh, to kind of help. And some of the fungal balls that they’re seeing get removed from, from this process is just absolutely fascinating. Like the more you dive deeper, it’s just, it’s crazy how you can think that you’ve covered all these bases, but then, you know, you’ve got something in your sinuses that’s continuing to keep your brain and your body inflamed. It’s just, uh, it’s just crazy.

Scott Forsgren: No, and I think to your point, I think that is a bigger piece than we give credit to. I was at a lecture recently with Dr. Donald Dennis, who does surgical procedures in Atlanta, Georgia to remove a lot of these, not only the fungus, the fungal balls, the fungal colonization, but also to help flush out some of the mycotoxins and kind of uses more of a surgical procedure to do that. And so it absolutely is an important piece to explore. And the fact that there’s tools like you just mentioned with the NABOGE, with the CARBOXY, those types of things that we can do without having to maybe go, you know, travel and do a surgical procedure and all of that are definitely, definitely have their place.

Heather Gray: and working with it bioenergetically, it’s got its place as well. And so with that, we’re getting close to wrapping this up. Do you have any last final words that you wanted to share with our audience?

Scott Forsgren: Yeah, so I mean, I think the bio energetic piece that you just mentioned, absolutely important. Dr. Dietrich Klinghart, from the beginning of my mentoring with him in 2006, has always said that we need physics based interventions in our protocol. So that could be light, sound, vibration, frequency, I think ultimately, those will be the bearers of many solutions to our chronic health challenges. I personally still use the wave one on a regular basis for ongoing maintenance, detox for microbial support, Lyme support, excited about the things that are coming in with the NIKKI as well, where we can use that tool for energy, stress, anxiety, insomnia, pain, allergies. And I know that’s something that the team is continuing to expand with the introduction of new frequency sets. And so, you know, every time there’s a new frequency set, I’m kind of like, Oh, Christmas morning, it’s like, you know, really, really cool to be able to explore these things. I also think tools like PEMF and photobiomodulation, you know, things in the physics realm, so important. And then I would just say as a few wrap up comments, if people are interested in learning more about my work and my podcast, it’s Better Health Guy blog cast, you can find that at betterhealthguy.com or on most of your podcast listening outlets. I’m also on the board of directors of the Lymelight Foundation, which is a great organization that provides treatment assistant financial grants to people that cannot access care in the Lyme arena. So if people are listening and potentially are interested in applying for a grant or interested in supporting that work, they can learn more about Lymelight Foundation at Lymelightfoundation.org. And you kind of touched on this at the beginning, but what I generally like to wrap up with is just the idea of not losing hope. These are not easy conditions. They do challenge us, they push us to our boundaries, but they also allow us to grow. I am more hopeful now than ever in this realm. I think we have an evolving understanding of the underlying factors that we need to think about. You know, years ago, we weren’t talking about mast cell activation. Years ago, we weren’t talking about SIBO. So the puzzle pieces are definitely becoming clearer. And I think there’s a lot more research, there’s a lot more that’s happening in this realm. So I think it’s just so important for people to know that as much as you may still be in the midst of a struggle, that people can and do recover, improve their lives and really get back to living a life full of joy and purpose.

Heather Gray: Oh, absolutely. And I love even talking about the gifts of Lyme. And sometimes I get beheaded for saying such things. And other people can hear it because it is the truth. I, I would not be the person I am today without going through what I’ve gone through with this. I was a party girl. I was on a bad path. Like this showed me how to take care of myself in a way, mind, body, and spirit that I would have never ever gotten to this place without this disease. So thank you for wrapping all that up. And make sure that you also visit weareNIKKI.com backslash podcast and put in bio beats for 10% off NIKKI. And because we love our customers and a way of saying, thank you. Uh, we want you to make sure you go to the show notes, because like I said, I alluded to a giveaway. We’re going to give away a free NIKKI on each podcast episode here. So you won’t want to miss that. So make sure you go to the show notes and learn how to enter. Make sure that you like subscribe, share all this information because how a podcast changed my life. This could be the podcast that helps change somebody else’s life, but it can’t, if it doesn’t get out there. So make sure that you’re spreading the love. Um, Scott, thanks again for joining us today and sharing all your wisdom. Such a blessing to spend time with you today and everybody else. Make sure to have a healthy day.

Frequently Asked Questions

How are chronic infections related to the development of chronic illnesses?

Chronic infections, particularly those resulting from tick-borne diseases, are often implicated in the onset and exacerbation of various chronic illnesses. These persistent infections can make the management and treatment of conditions like chronic Lyme disease more complex.

What role does lab testing play in addressing chronic Lyme disease and mycotoxin illness?

Lab testing is a critical component in diagnosing and treating complex health issues such as chronic Lyme disease and mycotoxin illness. Accurate lab results are essential for identifying the specific nature of the infection and guiding effective treatment strategies.

What are the challenges in healing Lyme and related tick-borne diseases?

Healing Lyme disease and other tick-borne diseases presents unique challenges. These include the diversity of symptoms, the difficulty in eradicating chronic infection, and the necessity for tailored approaches to treatment within the broader Lyme community.

In terms of overall health, how significant is addressing chronic conditions like Lyme disease?

Addressing chronic conditions such as Lyme disease is crucial for overall health. Effective management of these conditions not only involves treating the infection but also focuses on enhancing the body’s resilience and recovery capabilities.

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