Skip to content

Episode 13: Jeff Maier

Surf’s up, pain is down

« Back to Podcasts

Show Notes:

Dedicated surfer and extreme athlete Jeff Maier started coding professionally in his teens. By age 21, he was writing flight code for the first-generation GPS and for video games including Cabbage Patch Kids under contract to Coleco. He developed the Urban Surfin’ Surf Simulator, featured on ESPN, CNN, and FOX. In the late 80’s Jeff created Air Boardin’ Snowboard Simulator; believed to be the world’s first true VR game. Jeff spent much of his later career in crypto acceleration/security and supercomputers before launching a global mission to relieve pain and co-founding Rapid Release Therapy. His love of bioenergetics is rooted in a commitment to end suffering through technology.

In his interview with Bioenergetics Beat Podcast Host Heather Gray, Jeff discusses the life journey that led to startling insights into high-frequency therapy, the human fascia and the lifelong debilitating influence and effects of scar tissue. He describes the fascia as a casing of connective tissue that surrounds and contains every organ, blood vessel, bone, nerve fibre and muscle. Jeff explains the function of the Rapid Release device that has earned enthusiastic acclaim and become a staple in the holistic practitioner’s toolkit.


Enter to Win a FREE NIKKI with the Wellness Suite of Frequencies ($598 Value)

One lucky NIKKI winner will be selected for every Bioenergetics Beat podcast episode.

At checkout use the code BioBeats to receive 10% off your NIKKI order.
Code can not be combined with other promo codes. Please share, like and subscribe.


Dedicated surfer and extreme athlete Jeff Maier started coding professionally in his teens. By age 21, he was writing flight code for the first-generation GPS and for video games including Cabbage Patch Kids under contract to Coleco. He developed the Urban Surfin’ Surf Simulator, featured on ESPN, CNN, and FOX. In the late 80’s Jeff created Air Boardin’ Snowboard Simulator; believed to be the world’s first true VR game. Jeff spent much of his later career in crypto acceleration/security and supercomputers before launching a global mission to relieve pain and co-founding Rapid Release Therapy. His love of bioenergetics is rooted in a commitment to end suffering through technology.

In his interview with Bioenergetics Beat Podcast Host Heather Gray, Jeff discusses the life journey that led to startling insights into high-frequency therapy, the human fascia and the lifelong debilitating influence and effects of scar tissue. He describes the fascia as a casing of connective tissue that surrounds and contains every organ, blood vessel, bone, nerve fibre and muscle. Jeff explains the function of the Rapid Release device that has earned enthusiastic acclaim and become a staple in the holistic practitioner’s toolkit.

Heather Gray: Thank you so much for joining us today on another awesome episode of Bioenergetic Beats. Hey there, I’m Heather Gray, a functional diagnostic nutrition practitioner and certified bioenergetic practitioner. And this episode is brought to you today by NIKKI. Unleash the wellness within, it’s a non-invasive, easily affordable and highly effective approach to optimize wellness. It’s a wearable device that puts better based frequency in your life and on your wrist. Also you’re going to want to make sure to stick to the very, very end because we got a very special giveaway that you’re not going to want to miss out, but you’re not going to want to miss out on anything in today’s episode because our guest today is super cool, super fascinating. And I’ve actually used one of his products before and I absolutely love them. So I’m super excited to be talking about pain, right? With Jeff Maier. That’s right. Thank you so much for joining us.

Heather Gray: Hey, awesome. So I don’t typically read a person’s bio, but yours was just so damn impressive that I think I’m going to. And I love how you start off with short. Jeff is a short, short redhead surfer dude, biohacker for Southern California that loved computers. He started coding professionally in his teens. And by the age of 21 was writing flight code for the first generation GPS while writing video games under contract, including the Cabbage Patch Kids game for Coleco. Jeff spent his twenties developing the urban surfer surf simulator, which was featured on ESPN, CNN, Fox, and international outlets. He then created, which was likely the world’s first true virtual reality game.

Heather Gray: Airboarding, snowboarding simulator in the late 80s after selling the business after a key supplier went bankrupt.

Heather Gray: Jeff spent most of his career later in cryptocurrency, acceleration, security, and supercomputers before co-founding Rapid Release Therapy. His life coach told him that he should shoot much higher than current target of inspiring peace, love, and joy to the planet. He’s also an author, singer, songwriter, something much bigger, something that may not be achieved in your lifetime. I choose to end suffering on the planet without knowing how I would do it. Two weeks later, he met Dr. Stanbridge, the inventor of the technology, and the rest is history. And then what were you just telling me that I should have added, Jeff? You had another accomplishment?

Jeff Maier: Oh, I was a Lightbeer All-Star because of the virtual reality surf and snowboard simulators. So I got to travel around the world and party like a rock star.

Heather Gray: That’s awesome. That’s awesome. I lived on Hawaii for a little while and I never got in. It’s funny. So I live in Colorado and I don’t, I don’t, I don’t ski. I’m a horrible, I know. I need to have my Colorado car taken away. And then I lived in Hawaii and I didn’t snow, I didn’t surf. So I’ve kind of got funky knees. But anywho, Jeff, thank you so much. Most people I’ve found that get into this kind of alternative world, right, is there for a reason. And we’ll be talking about pain today and your rapid release product is early here. So could you tell us how did you get started in all this?

Jeff Maier: Well, my life coach made me make a real big promise. And when I said that I wanted to end suffering on the planet, I didn’t have any idea of how I was going to do it, but I was thinking more of like, I don’t know if you’ve ever heard that term that.

Jeff Maier: Pain is inevitable, but suffering is optional. So kind of like on a spiritual level, how you can be with that pain and not be suffering. So that’s kind of what I was originally thinking, something like that. But two weeks later, I met Dr. Stanbridge and he had this fantastic prototype.

Jeff Maier: And we were in business together probably a couple weeks after that.

Jeff Maier: So do you want me to tell you a little bit about what he had?

Heather Gray: Yeah, absolutely. And what was your, you know, why were you drawn to pain and to this particular type of technology?

Jeff Maier: You know, I really wasn’t, because I wasn’t in pain myself at all. Cause I do yoga every day and a lot of other practices that keeps me out of pain. Although I do have a fusion of my low back and it helped on that a lot. So that was about the only thing that I had going on.

Jeff Maier: But Dr. Sandbridge is a chiropractor and he had about 10 different gadgets and each gadget would work on some things, but not others.

Jeff Maier: and it might work on this guy’s shoulder, but not on this guy’s shoulder. And he was always thinking in the back of his head, there’s gotta be something that.

Jeff Maier: that would work on, you know, like universally around the body. And.

Jeff Maier: One night, late night on TV, saw a commercial for a Dremel and a high speed vibration sander. And he thought, what about higher frequency? One of his favorite tools was the vibration plate. There was a lot of science behind it. And

Jeff Maier: But, you know, if you look in the medical literature.

Jeff Maier: everything in vibration is under 60 Hertz. And the next lowest one is in ultrasound, which is typically in the megahertz. So there’s all this unused bandwidth that’s never really been experimented with.

Jeff Maier: And with the prototype, we were able to experiment on higher frequencies between 60 Hertz and a couple hundred Hertz.

Jeff Maier: And so empirically, just by testing it on patients, he kept coming back to this 150 hertz sweet spot.

Jeff Maier: And that’s where we got the best effects and it felt the best.

Jeff Maier: And at the time we didn’t realize that that’s what the Nogier frequency is. Dr. Nogier was a French neurologist in 1972, wrote a book. And in it, he said that he was able to measure the frequency of scar tissue at 147 Hertz.

Jeff Maier: So that was kind of interesting. And that’s what we, we, we weren’t really planning on going to market with that prototype, but we took it to one show and it caught on like wildfire and we ended up selling 4,000 of them before we could build our first custom device.

Jeff Maier: It also turns out that there’s a neurological effect that happens when you vibrate the muscles between 100 and 200 Hertz.

Jeff Maier: it pulls on the muscle spindles. And at that frequency, it stimulates the eye-afferent nerves to release alpha motor neurons to signal the muscles’ agonist-antagonist co-contraction to release. So what that means is spasms, cramps, and muscle guarding. So that was another nice benefit from the device.

Heather Gray: Yeah, absolutely. You know, I love any type of devices out there that can help with pain. You know, after having chronic Lyme disease for over 27 years, and that was kind of the foundation for Free Medica’s and NIKKI’s to begin with was more Lyme, but now we’ve gotten out and into, you know.

Heather Gray: a more general, you know, pain, energy, you know, sleep type of frequencies, but the pain frequency has been absolutely amazing. And I love when we’re thinking outside of the box, because I found the same thing that certain things work for certain people, not others, right. There’s no magic bullet. So what did you see with that chiropractor with the different, you know, stuff that would work for others, but, you know, not for others, you know, we’re.

Jeff Maier: What was the solution to that? I didn’t have much pain myself and I took it around and I used it on friends and family and everyone was getting fantastic results from like foots and shoulders and necks. And, you know, I thought at the price point, it was the way I met Dr. Stambridge, actually I financed Light Stim. I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of that company. They make a LED,

Jeff Maier: LED wand, mainly for beauty.

Jeff Maier: I had an LED invention and that’s when the inventor of Light Stim said, I got to go talk to Dr. Stan because he knows LEDs really well. And when I showed Dr. Stan, my invention, then he kind of opened up and showed me his invention. And I said, your invention is better.

Jeff Maier: And so…

Jeff Maier: Yeah, it’s been a really fun journey. One of the things, you know, I was a software engineer for so long. You sit in a cube all day and you just code and, you know, the boss always comes and says, well, can you get more code faster? And so, you know, there’s never any thank you. And, you know, all these nice phone calls that we get every day at rapid release. So.

Jeff Maier: That was a huge shift for me and I just.

Jeff Maier: You know, I’ve got a goal of helping a billion people on the planet before I die. And I think rapid release gives me that avenue to possibly do it.

Heather Gray: You had spoken about scar tissue. What was the, why focus around scar tissue? What’s the importance of that?

Jeff Maier: Well, that’s a major problem for a lot of aches and pains. Like for instance, like rotator cuff syndrome where you can’t get your arm up too far. It’s held there by scar tissue. Scar tissue adhesions are.

Jeff Maier: are adhesions that attach tissue that shouldn’t be attached.

Jeff Maier: And so they’re basically avascular with no, very little blood flow. And your body’s supposed to recover that tissue. You know, when young and babies and stuff, they don’t really generate scar tissue, but people in their 70s tend to create a lot of scar tissue.

Jeff Maier: The other thing that’s really unique about this device is it’s got a dual motion, so it’s orbital. So it’s going around in circles this way so that the top is very gentle, like this is the device right here. And this part, you can put it on your head, your, you know, your.

Jeff Maier: The forehead, there’s meridian lines along the top of your head. The suture lines along the top of your scalp are amazing. And I like putting this one along the back of my neck and kind of lifting up on the head and you can put your head in traction. It feels pretty amazing.

Jeff Maier: but it’s only moving a 16th of an inch. So it’s gentle enough to use on your jaw for TMJ.

Jeff Maier: In 12, 13 years, we haven’t had a single injury. But one of the most, you know, the percussion devices work well on the belly of the muscle, but there’s really no pathology in the belly of the muscle. Most of the issues are in the ligaments, tendons, fascia, and scar tissue. And those are usually on the end points of the muscles. And so this really does a good job of precisely targeting those areas.

Heather Gray: Gotcha. Well, before we jump in too deep on how and why it works, I think we’re going to pause for a quick commercial break. Don’t go anywhere. We’ll be right back. And also, again, you’re not going to want to wait. You’re going to want to wait till the very end because we do have an amazing giveaway. So stay tuned. We’ll be right back.

Heather Gray: Hey, welcome back, everybody. Thank you for joining us again. And we’ve got the awesome Jeff Maier here talking about his really cool device that helps with pain, breaking up scar tissue. And we’re going to dive deeper into why this stuff works and how, and it’s frequency-based, which we, you know, being at FreeMedica and NIKKI, we’re all about the frequency. You know, we were talking a little bit about scar tissue before, and I think what’s cool about your device is so it helps break up the scar tissue, correct?

Jeff Maier: Um, we can’t state that because it’s it’s pretty much impossible to prove. I mean, we see it every day, but the FDA doesn’t like frequency devices, as you probably know, and we’re a medical device. So we have to really be careful what we say.

Heather Gray: Right, no, that totally makes sense. Thank you. But it’s fascinating, because people don’t realize that a lot of energy gets stuck in scar tissue. And so anything that kind of can help, you know, smooth that stuff out, and then bring the connection, right, the energetic connection back to helps bring a person back to wholeness and wellness. And that’s part of the reason we have pain and we have stuck stuff around scar tissues, you know, not just like on the mental, physical, but mental, emotional, but on the physical level. And so how, um, so your device has a frequency, how did you arrive at that frequency?

Jeff Maier: That’s by empirical, by testing, you know, that’s how we found it first. And then once we arrived at the frequency, then we found all this stuff that backs that this is a great frequency. One thing I think that’s really interesting is it’s right where the male and female voice intersect. If you take the intersection of the frequency of my voice and your voice, it’s right here. You can hum it. So it’s you know, voice healing and sound healing has been the standard of care for, you know, tens of thousands of years, but 99.9% of that energy bounces off the air skin barrier. And so these compression waves are the same as our voices compression waves. So we’re applying that energy right into the body with nearly 100% efficiency.

Jeff Maier: It’s also right where a guitar and a piano, right in the middle of a guitar and piano. It’s just a very friendly frequency, like cats and dogs love it. We have people using it on camels, horses.

Jeff Maier: you know, arcane to animals.

Heather Gray: How many camels are you around?

Jeff Maier: None, but we did have one of our doctors send us a picture of him using it on a camel.

Heather Gray: Oh my gosh, that’s adorable. So how is this device different from other percussive devices?

Jeff Maier: Well, it’s really, the other percussive devices are really for the belly of the muscle, which there’s really nothing wrong with. They’re great for circulation, but it’s really the end points and the ligaments, tendons, and fascia. And when you add vibration and heat into the interstitial space where the hyaluronic acid is, you can increase the viscosity of the hyaluronic acid and it allows the fascia to reflow. So you can think of it as like a volumizing shampoo, for your fascia. And one of my favorite things is to get an all over body massage. My massage therapist, she uses two of these and she grinds on me for like an hour practically. And when she’s done, I’ve had this amazing lymphatic flush. I feel super flexible.

Jeff Maier: And it allows your fascia to realign itself. So that was a big shift for me because I was going to the chiropractor for my low back and the massage therapist a couple of times a week. And once I had that all over body massage, you know, now I rarely have to go. So maybe once a month or something.

Heather Gray: That’s incredible. And how handy for the massage therapist, right? They’re actually saving a lot of their body and their hands by being able to use this device.

Jeff Maier: Not only that, but if they, you know, we’ve had people that have had their thumbs messed up from doing too much massage and, you know, they’re ready to quit their career and they just put it on and it, it helps instantly.

Heather Gray: Wow, that’s incredible. I wish I would have known that back when I was a hairstylist, because it was the same, you know, repetitive motion, right, the wrists, the hands. But actually, I’m in a better place now, much better place now. But the pain, yeah, there’s so many people out there dealing with different sorts of pain, you know, from physical energy to, you know, chronic disease, you know.

SPEAKER_00: But the pain, yeah.

Heather Gray: What else can this be used for?

Jeff Maier: for? Well, one of the main reasons it really helps with pain is that the pain is your pain sensors are primarily in your fascia. Your fascia is your highest density sensors in the body.

Jeff Maier: And so a lot of times like you can break a bone and the bone heals, but the fascia is still messed up and it could be messed up for a long time. And that’s another thing is that a lot of times the fascia might be pulling, like for me, one of the reasons I had to have my fusion is I had piriformis syndrome, because I was a programmer. I sat in a desk for 20 or 30 years and my butt was locked up so hard that nobody could release it. I went to.

Jeff Maier: physical therapists, chiropractors, acupuncturists.

Heather Gray: I’ve been dealing with that myself. Sciatica is no joke.

Jeff Maier: Well, piriformis syndrome can cause the sciatica. That’s when the butt cheek itself is kind of locked up. And, you know, the massage therapists were using their elbows, they were using, standing on it, you know, using their knees, pretty much everything, but nothing worked.

Jeff Maier: And I got a call one day from a massage therapist. And she goes, you got to see the miracles I’m doing with this device. And I didn’t say this, but I was kind of like, oh, we get that every day. But she offered me a free massage and I like massage and she was local. So I went down and met with her. And so I told her, you know, this is my problem area back here. And she goes, okay, lay face up. And I go, no, it’s back here. This is the problem area. She goes, I know what I’m doing. And so I laid face up and she just, you know, went over my entire front of my body. She got my.

Jeff Maier: The inner costals on my rib cage with this sock tip. Oh, wow. You know, she got my top my hands, bottom my hands, top, bottom, my feet, um, in my stomach, you know, everything. So as, and then she goes, okay, flip over. And I said, okay. And I said, this is where I need you to get right here. And she goes, basically shut up. And so she did the same thing on my back. She just got my entire back area. She maybe spent two or three minutes on my problem area just to make me pacify me. And, um,

Jeff Maier: And then she was able to release my piriformis. She took this acupuncture tip right here and she put that right in three places on my piriformis and she pushed it in really hard and it’s not the most pleasant feeling. And she asked me to really consciously relax that butt cheek

Jeff Maier: and take big long exhales. And so I kept doing that and she kept hitting those three areas and she was able to release it. And after she released it, I was thinking, man, I probably didn’t have to have that surgery because it was my butt cheek that was pulling my spine out all the time.

Jeff Maier: So, and I felt so amazing when I left there. You know, I went to yoga after that and I was like more flexible than I’ve ever been.

Jeff Maier: And then I got this idea. I wanted her to go to do that same massage for me. And then I wanted to go to a float tank. I don’t know if you’re familiar with the float tanks.

Heather Gray: I haven’t been to one. I want to try one, though.

Jeff Maier: but you’re basically weightless in there. They have 1,100 pounds of Epsom salt. And so I had her just grind me for an hour, maybe an hour and a half. And then I went and I got in a float tank and it just put my, it really allowed my fascia to reflow. I’ve had a lot of trauma in my life, doing a lot of extreme sports and stuff. And that was really a game changer. Those two sessions I had with her really changed my life.

Heather Gray: That is a true testament to your device, because most people who are into the extreme sports, like you have broken every single bone you could possibly break, and more than once if you’re any good, right? Because you kind of have to get out of your comfort zone and practice makes perfect. And that usually means eating the asphalt a few times before you actually perfect it. So that’s just ridiculously impressive with you turning 63 this month, next month.

Heather Gray: and you’re not complaining of any pain, like that is ridiculously impressive. So who else can benefit from this type of work?

Jeff Maier: Well, you know, in the Shaolin Temple in China, the circus freaks, you know, that are super flexible in the Kung Fu, it’s really where Kung Fu and a lot of those type of energetic martial arts came from. They do this practice called page de lang.

Jeff Maier: And the translation is stretching and slapping. So like say you put your hamstring up someplace and as you’re stretching your hamstring, now you’re slapping it. And so when you’re slapping it, you’re micro-stretching your hamstring on top of what you’re already doing.

Jeff Maier: And I don’t know if you’re familiar with PNF stretching.

Jeff Maier: It’s like resistive stretching. So if you get your hamstring in a stretch position and then on your exhale, you drive your heel down. So now it’s contracted and stretched at the same time. And then you blast it with this thing.

Jeff Maier: it’s really gonna increase your flexibility super quick. And flexibility is one of the keys to being out of pain.

Jeff Maier: And I don’t know if you’re familiar with that concept of hormetics or hormesis.

Heather Gray: A little bit of stress is good for the body.

Jeff Maier: Exactly. The adaptive stress response. So you want to stress, like when you’re lifting weights, you want to stress your body so your body breaks down and gets stronger. A lot of supplements like resveratrol, they actually damage your veins, but then your body comes in and makes your veins stronger.

Jeff Maier: When you’re shoveling, you build calluses on your hands because you’re stressing it and it gets stronger. And what we’re doing here is we’re stressing your ligaments, tendons while you’re stretching and they come back stronger, longer and stronger.

Heather Gray: That’s impressive. You had talked a little bit about the fashion. I meant to go back to that. Can you explain to us a little bit about, for people who have a medical background, what is fashion? Where is it found?

Jeff Maier: Well, the fascia, if it was considered an organ, which it really should be, would actually be the biggest organ in our body.

Jeff Maier: And there’s a concept called tensegrity, where you can get a bunch of like tinker toys and you can connect them with rubber bands and make a structure that’s flexible.

Jeff Maier: And that’s how our bodies are put together. And the fascia is kind of like the rubber bands that hold the bones together and the muscles. You know, if you look at an orange, when you peel an orange, you got that white stuff all the way around the outside of the orange. And then when you break it into sections, you got the white stuff around each section. And then you break open the section, there’s little, kind of hard to see, but there’s little white sections that go around each little drip of the, each part of the orange. When you’re cutting meat and you see the white part on the meat, not the fat, but the other stuff, that’s the connective tissue or the fascia.

Jeff Maier: And in…

Jeff Maier: Acupuncture, they call it, when you have blockages, stagnation, and that’s what they call scar tissue and pain. And we have about 500 acupuncturists that use this that swear by it.

Heather Gray: Oh, that’s incredible. And then so can you self-treat?

Jeff Maier: Yeah, you know, the beauty about this design is that you can reach it any place on your body, you know, getting those hard spots on the back or, you know, underneath like that.

Jeff Maier: Um, you can put it in the back of your head and work on it, or, you know, you can do it this way. So there’s really no spot in your body that you can’t treat. And, you know, the percussion devices, because they’re usually like a gun format, they’re really hard to get.

Heather Gray: I love the fact that you said it was gentle enough to do your job because I don’t have like true TMJ, but I definitely clench and grind in my sleep and my jaw always.

Heather Gray: is a bit tense, so I wish I had one of those right now, because that would be really awesome.

Jeff Maier: The jaw muscles are so tight, they release in like 30 seconds to a minute.

Heather Gray: So I remember you saying that you did use the NIKKI as well for pain and it’s kind of a funny story on why you don’t have it on right now. So you said it decided to take a swim in the swimming pool and guess what? Our devices are waterproof. They are not meant to go swimming. So what was your experience with the NIKKI and the pain?

Jeff Maier: I really liked it. You know, every once in a while, when I do have some pain, I’d turn on the pain mode and I did notice a difference. And I’m a big believer in the biofrequency and bioenergetics. In fact, some of the docs I like to follow, they say that that’s really the primary foundation of health is the bioenergetics side. You know, what you eat and drink and stuff like that is secondary to bioenergetics. So that’s quite a big statement.

Jeff Maier: So I’ve always been a big fan of having my bioenergetic field optimized.

Heather Gray: It cracks me up because when I got into functional medicine, you know, we were like, we get to the root cause of the problems, you know, because we’re not just slapping, you know, pills and surgery, like a lot of Western medicine does when it comes to chronic illness. And then I had to laugh once I got into bioenergetics. And I was like, Oh, no, no, no, that’s, they don’t have the root cause the root causes out here, the root causes in the bioenergetic field, because if you’re out in your bioenergetic field, you’re not going to respond to supplements and to food and to other physical things properly with that field being out. And that’s the other reason why so it’s so important with the fascist because the fascist is also part of our information highway, right? It’s part of our electromagnetic being and where a lot of the information travels to. So if we’ve got these adhesions, if we’ve got the scar tissue, like I said, it has a tendency to hold stuck emotions, which we have also found, you know, leads to disease and other chronic ailments out forward. So frequency devices, bioenergetic devices, like these truly are cutting edge and the wave of the future on how we’re going to start treating. And it’s funny, because we’re going back to the beginning, because a lot of ancient civilizations knew this about sound and light. And here we are, again, you know, revisiting that. So I think it’s just beautiful.

Jeff Maier: ancient healing technologies that are pretty profound. Oh my gosh. Here’s to honing them in.

Heather Gray: Absolutely. Absolutely. Beautiful. Hey, Jeff. Thank you so much for joining us today. Can you let us know how, how can people find you and find out more about your device.

Jeff Maier: Rapid release tech is where to go.

Jeff Maier: We could probably give a special for the viewers. You can use a special code JM200 to save $200.

Heather Gray: jm 200 to save 200 that’s beautiful that’s very generous and, on top of that we’re going to give away a free nicki so make sure to go to the show notes to learn how to enter into that drawing and then we’ll also everybody can get the code for the $200 discount so that’s a double score, thank you so much for that jeff we appreciate that.

Jeff Maier: Very generous and on top.

Jeff Maier: and we do have a 100 day money back guarantee.

Heather Gray: That’s incredible.

Heather Gray: awesome so while you’re there also make sure that you visit we are NIKKI calm and you also want to enter in bio beats for a 10% off of a NIKKI device. And again Jeff Thank you so much for joining us and sharing i’m super excited to actually look more into that myself i’ve had. You know car accidents, I used to break horses, you know, was a hairstylist and chronic disease for 27 years and while the NIKKI does really awesome for pain like I said I still have some pair of form is myself from sitting too much. You know, being on screen and so i’m excited to try it out.

Jeff Maier: They’re a perfect demographic.

Heather Gray: Yay. Awesome. Thank you again, Jeff. Everybody else make sure to have a healthy day.

« Back to Podcasts